Special Guest, Dr. JB Dyas, Pt. 2

Dr. JB Dyas  0:30  
Have my list of 104 must know tunes. Yeah, and these are the 104 must no tunes, and I have them the first 52 and the second 52. Yeah, and the, and these are all standards and tunes that are played a jam sessions and gigs and so forth. And so the idea, Bob, is that the first 52 are a little bit easier than the second 52. Yeah. But also, if, if you're a jazz musician, and you don't know if you get called a tune called on that first list of 52. Yeah, you're going to be really embarrassed. Right? Right. If you don't know it, and on the second list of 50 tune, you'll still be embarrassed, but not as embarrassed.

Dr. Bob Lawrence  1:13  
So funny. You're taking me back. I remember. I can't remember what magazine it was keyboard magazine, I guess. When it was around. Dick Hyman posted a had an article 100 tunes that every jazz musician should know. And boy, I started working on those 100 tunes. And then right away and then the next month, you had another article 100 More tunes. Every jazz musician should not so what the heck yeah. In the next month. 100 more jazz. I can't keep up. But that's fantastic. That is awesome.

Dr. JB Dyas  1:42  
Yeah, and the reason for the 50 to 100 and 412. In a week

Dr. Bob Lawrence  1:48  
I to us, I was just gonna say I knew there was I knew there was some formulaic approach to that.

Dr. JB Dyas  1:55  
And by the way, once you learn those 104 Dick hymens next 104 Day caimans next 104. So much easier because you're saying, Well, this is this is just like this, except,

Dr. Bob Lawrence  2:06  
Oh, listen, I'll tell you a really quick story, a jazz pianist that I grew up admiring. Back in, in the Quad Cities. His name was Warren Parrish. And he spent time in Florida as well, great jazz player hung out with rich Madison, Jack Peterson, you know, that kind of player and, and I asked him when I was like 14 years old, and I asked him how he knew so many songs. And he took his little cigar out of his mouth, you know what it is? And he looked at me like it just asked him the dumbest question in the world. And he said, what I said, Warren, I said, I come to gigs, I see you play you take every request, singers come up, they want to sing a tune in and a certain key, I never see you not be able to play a tune or play a tune in the key that somebody wants it in. How do you do that? And you look that takes another perfect bomb. What are you talking about? Manny said they're all the same. Now, when I was 14 years old, I thought, What's he talking about? What a kook, you know, that, you know, Misty is not the same as I left my heart in San Francisco. Those are like two different we're actually talking about, you know, now, you know, 45 years later, JB, I go, Oh, now I understand the depth of his understanding of music. He's, he's looking at that harmonic structure. And those, those changes and the commonality of these progressions that he's seeing over and over again, and all these tunes, that he knows it so well hears it so well, that he can actually make the statement. What are you talking about? They're all the same. Wow.

Dr. JB Dyas  3:43  
I love that story. And I'm, and I'm with him. When I, when I first when I first came down to Florida, and I was a guitar player, then before I made my transition, right, I wanted to study guitar with whoever the best was, right? And I found out that the very best guitar teacher was named Randall dolla, Han, who taught at the University of Miami. So I call, I called him up. And I say, I want to take some lessons with you. So that way, I have no time. And basically, I'm just teaching the graduate students here at Miami. And I let me recommend one of my students, so So I said, No, I want to study with you. Right, I'll pay you what and I remember I paid him $100 A lesson, which was a lot of money back then. Oh, sure. And, and I said, Could I just take one less? I'll pay you 102. And he said, Okay, one lesson. So I go go to the lesson. And remember, this is this arrogant kid who thought he knew everything and you know, which I subsequently realized I know nothing, but I go in there. So he's teaching me and he can barely get a word in edgewise before I'm asking the question. What but can't I use this skip or whatever? After superluminous Well, can I use the diminishing? What? So? So finally, you know, at the end of the lesson, you know, like, he's watching the clock because 58 minutes. He said, Okay, he said, we're done. So what could I schedule another lesson with you? And he said, Yeah, you can we can you give me a call, I'm gonna give you an assignment. And when you're finished with the assignment, you give me a call. And I'll give you another lesson. And I said, Okay, what's my assignment? And he gave me a list of 100 tunes. He said, I want you to memorize these 100 zones. And I said, and, of course, they knew none of them on their song from my father, blue boss or anything. Right,

Dr. Bob Lawrence  5:42  
right. And they said,

Dr. JB Dyas  5:43  
I said, Why do I have to? Why do I have to memorize these 100 tunes? Before I have my next lesson, he says, because then you won't have all those damn questions. There you go. And he was right. He said, the answers are in the tunes. Yeah. Right. How chords work how people solo? What makes a good solo, right? How a melody works with a chord progression. Right, right. Right. And so I learned my 100 tunes, you know, 10 years later? Did you call him? Hey, I'm ready. I'm ready, man. But but he was right. I learned how chords work. I learned what scales work with what tunes I learned what a good what's good solo development was yeah,

Dr. Bob Lawrence  6:28  
you know, you mentioned something earlier, I gotta go back to because it's so profound. And I want listeners, I want to talk about it again, because I want listeners to really take this to heart and start utilizing it when practicing. You said that when you start somebody improvising, you start with the roots and the thirds. And they have to do something rhythmically, with those two notes to improvise. Okay, this is profound. And I want listeners to know how profound This is. Because we all think everybody thinks when they start improvising, you know, that everybody thinks of hands flying across the keys like this are up and down the guitar fretboard like this. And they don't realize that you can develop your improvisational skills and your approach to improvisation with two notes, moving through a set of changes. And I had a teacher that I was, I thought that this two node approach. I thought this two node approach was beneath me, I thought that how insulting I gotta be able to play more. I gotta be free, man. I gotta, I gotta have the I got you got to give me the enough leash to let me roam and to create and be creative. And I can remember he said to me, Bob, can can you improvise with two notes? And I said, No. And he said, so you think adding a third, fourth, fifth or sixth or seventh notes is going to make it like easier? I said, Yeah, he says, so stop thinking in terms of the quantity of notes that you play, say something musical, say something with the root. And third, do something rhythmically. That's musical. And and you mentioned this, and this is a profound statement that I think a lot of times students, we say this right, but I think it goes in the one year and flies out the other ear. So can you just expound upon that just a little bit more of why that is so important. Well,

Dr. JB Dyas  8:33  
yeah, beginning improvisers. And once they learn the scales, that's what they start doing. They start running scales and rife with with that, right and without any rhythmic content by by saying just roots in thirds, and then on the neck scores, roots, thirds and fifths. It makes it interesting rhythmically. That gets in their mind that they have to be rhythmic. You know, I'm reading the biography of Sonny Rollins. Right now. I'm halfway through its book is this thick? Wow. Brilliant, brilliantly researched and written. And this is one of the great things that made him. I mean, of course, he had all these fantastic chops and everything but with his rhythmic or his ability to develop solos, right? So you start off making them aware of rhythm right from the beginning. And that's going to inform everything else, everything further that they do once they do have chops and can write, play double time and run right down. Right. And so I take that song from my father that that that solo that Horace silver plays on that on that first chorus, and it's mostly chord tones. With just a few extra scale tones. It's mostly outlining the chord. I mean, right. But it's so genius rhythmically, how he does it now he places it and he also uses the blue scale. Alright, a little bit, you know, where they have the breaks there. So I can use the blue skills, the band breaks, so it's not going to clash with anyone. Right? Right. And, and so this whole percussive, rhythmic thing, and, and then they're getting vocabulary, right? They're getting like, like when when Horace at the end of his first two, first two ways he goes he goes which is just such a great lick now 13451413 And he harmonizes he goes

Dr. JB Dyas  10:37  
for a single note instrument, it's just right. Right. And I say you're playing, you're playing on a minor chord and you you start with that, or into phrase with that. It's like, wow, this gets checked out Horace silver. Yeah, not a bad person to check out.

Dr. Bob Lawrence  10:58  
Not a bad person to check out. Right.

Dr. JB Dyas  11:00  
So Terry Clark Terry said, there's, there's nothing wrong with copying as long as you copy the right cats.

Dr. Bob Lawrence  11:06  
That is exactly that's so true. Right. So true. So um, you know, another thing that I want to see if get your thoughts on, when I have students come to me, and they want to start studying jazz, I always, JB I always say, so you want to study jazz? Oh, yeah. I want to study jazz. I said, well, then tell me. You must know then what jazz is the study of so what is jazz the study yo. And then their silence. They don't know what to say. And I go, but you you just told me you want to study jazz. But you can't tell me what jazz is the study of? I said this kind of is a problem. And they go yes. I said, so. Let me start this way. Let me tell you what jazz is not the study of let's start this way. And they go okay. I say jazz is not the study of dots, and buttons, and other In other words, you see a.on A page and you push a button on a keyboard. Or you see a.on the page and you pluck pluck a string. This is not the study of jazz, as a jazz is actually the study of shapes, and sounds, shapes and sounds. So we have to know the sounds of jazz. And we have to know the shapes for those sounds. That's where we begin. So what do you what are your thoughts on that?

Dr. JB Dyas  12:32  
I love what you just said. I would like to borrow it if I may.

Dr. Bob Lawrence  12:37  
Oh, you absolutely. It's all yours, JB.

Dr. JB Dyas  12:41  
That's brilliant. I have it's all about listening in the beginning. And along the way. That's right. You can't you can't learn how to speak a language of any kind without hearing it. Right you and of course the younger you start the better, right? But to learn how to speak French strictly out of a textbook. You're it's never gonna sound it's never gonna sound right. So he's gonna sound like Well, I kind of understand what he's saying. But I can tell you one thing that cats not French.

Dr. Bob Lawrence  13:14  
But listen, it's funny you say that because I always use the example I always I say if a Texan goes over to France, and he goes Parlez vous Francais? Mademoiselle. I said, the French are gonna go like, Okay, what? He said the words but dude, that's not French. That's the French right?

Dr. JB Dyas  13:35  
Yeah, yeah. You got to, you got to know the language. And, like, if you're in New York, and someone comes, someone comes up to you and says, Ed, okay, can you show me where? Where is the tube? You'll know, he means the subway. But you'll also know this guy's not from New York.

Dr. Bob Lawrence  13:54  
New York, right? He's not from New York. So

Dr. JB Dyas  13:58  
vice versa in New York, it goes in London, where's the subway?

Dr. Bob Lawrence  14:03  
Right?

Dr. JB Dyas  14:04  
Well, no, he's not a London or so. Yeah. So you know, you gotta listen. And you know, I have a 10 step process. And on my website, I have the 10 step process of learning tunes. And step number one is listen to the definitive recording numerous times. Yes. Listen to the definitive recording, know the personnel. And then that's the step one, then step two, is you learn the form you listen again, you'll in the form. Step three, you do the root movement. Just play the roots. Step four, you play the chords if you're a pianist or guitarist, you comp good voicings YOU ARE YOU LEARN voicings to comp, right. If you're, if you're horn soloist then you are page eight those chords and I on my website, I show you how to do it like how to do two fives, so forth. If you're a pianist and guitarist you got to be able to do both takes you twice as long as Gotta be able to COP, right? And you got to be able to appreciate the course to number five, step number five, this is all along with the definitive recording, you play the scales that the courts imply, right? Number six, you memorize the head, notice how long, how much how long you wait to memorize the head, you don't memorize the head first. That's, that's the mistake we all make. And so you're not able to relate it to anything. So so you're playing songs. So you learn songs from my father, you learn that the first chord is F minor, and then you learn you go through all those steps. And finally, you get to step six, and you play the melody. And you say, Well, what's what scale? Is it? Oh, it's F minor, who would have thunk?

Dr. Bob Lawrence  15:49  
Wow, what a coincidence. So, so

Dr. JB Dyas  15:51  
you realize, you realize that these melodies go with these chords? And that way, you can use them later on intellectually for quoting, and yeah, turning and transposing and them and other keys and so forth. Yeah. Then step number seven, is you improvise, you practice improvising with everything, you know, step number eight, is that you transcribe from that definitive recording. It doesn't have to be someone's whole solo or even a whole chorus, but transcribed something, eight bars, a to five, a turn around something. Then step number nine is practice improvising, again, using your new fund material. Try not to have it sound contrived, get it inserted, and by the time you get a whole lot of material, a whole lot, a whole lot of material. Pretty soon, you're not quoting anything, it's just right. It's just informing everything you do. And then finally, Step 10, is to make sure you know everything that's on the definitive recording that those in the know, know, like, if there's a harmony part, or shout chorus, or a definitive introduction, like, take the A train or all the things you are right, or a definitive ending, right, make sure you know what those in the know. Know. And that's the 10 step process. Yeah, that's fantastic.

Dr. Bob Lawrence  17:09  
It's so number six, right? Number six was learn to melody. Correct, right. And so the same old crusty jazz pianist that that was one of my mentors. When I was a kid. He used to say to me, if you want to get good at improvisation, if you want to get good at creating melodies, study harmony, study harmony. And I used to think, wow, what does that mean? Because I used to always think, okay, melody and harmony, those are two different things. And what you were just illustrating there with song, My father is, wow, chord scale relationship. Isn't that interesting how that melody flows out of that, out of that harmony out of that out of that chord. So that's so that's so important. And the root movement, I can't stress enough, you mentioned that I stressed that all the time. harmonic analysis in terms of in terms of oh, that's, that's a one go into a six go into a flat six going into it. That's very different than understanding chord scale relationships, that harmonic root, that root movement and being able to hear that, that that's a one go into six go into a flat six, go into a five, that kind of that kind of understanding. It's it's absolutely essential, Would you not agree?

Dr. JB Dyas  18:24  
Absolutely. And Bob, you know, one of the things that I do for the Herbie Hancock Institute of jazz, is that I direct the Los Angeles all City jazz band, right. And the Los Angeles all City jazz band is comprises the best high school kids in LA. And because LA is so big, I got a nice pool to pick from, it's a really good band, we always play at the Hollywood Bowl jazz festival every year, right? And but anyway, I do this process with these students. For every big band chart we learn. We listen to the definitive recording, we learn, we learn the form, this is the 18 piece band, we play the roots, we play the chords, we play the scales, then we all play the head. So everybody gets a lead sheet in their key. Everybody gets a lead sheet in their key like the Aebersold lead sheets, right? And then everybody improvisers on it. Now we don't have time to have everybody play a full chorus. So like if we're doing, say, a tune like song for my father, which, which we, which we might do with a beginning band, say, each student plays eight bars, and everyone keeps their place. Then I hand out a big band arrangement of the same tune in the same key. And we realize what's going on with look at the roadmap. So this is a four bar intro and then hear what's the first day and then the second repeat second a bridge first a second a bridge. So I'll go up to the third trombone player and I'll say, okay, they're at, at letter A Ah, on the letter H, on the chart, where are you? And he'll say, I met the bridge. And I'll say, and what is the chord there? I said, is a chord written there? And he'll say no. And I said, What is the chord there? And he'll say, E flat seven. And I say, how do you know what's E flat seven, and they say, because I'm a jazz musician. And that's what we do so that everybody in that big band can solo now, different levels, you know, we have three or four kids that can really blow and write some kids who can't. But when we go when we go through that there's two drummers in the group. One is on a set of vibes ones on the marimba, and they're at least doing the root movement, right? At least playing the root movement with us. So they understand the form and the movement is

Dr. Bob Lawrence  20:49  
so important, so important. So okay, let's talk a little bit more about that. The Herbie Hancock, let's talk about what you do at the Herbie Hancock Institute,

Dr. JB Dyas  21:01  
where the Herbie Hancock Institute has several components. What we're probably most famous for is our International Jazz competition. And by the way, the Herbie Hancock Institute used to be the Felonious Monk Institute of jazz, and in 2019, they changed the name to the Herbie Hancock Institute to honor her be Hancock who has been the chairman for the last 20 years. He is also the international Goodwill Ambassador for UNESCO, with whom we sponsor and facilitate International Jazz day.

Dr. Bob Lawrence  21:35  
So which is coming up right, April 30/30, right,

Dr. JB Dyas  21:39  
April 30. So we have an international competition every year held at the Kennedy Center, different instrument every year, it's jumpstarted. the careers of people like Joshua Redman and Ryan, Chris Potter and Ambrose, second mosseri, and Gerald Clayton, these are all people that were either one or finalists, people you really didn't hear of until they won the competition. So it really helps jumpstart careers. Then we have our college program here at UCLA, which is a graduate program. We take between five and eight students every two years. And it's a specialized program where we have the greatest visiting, teaching artists come and teach here, like Herbie Hancock and Christian McBride and goats and Billy Childs. And they have a different they, they have a different artists with whom they work with every couple of weeks. I teach them jazz pedagogy. And then they take, they take one class per quarter of regular UCLA music class, and at the end of two years, they get a master's degree conferred by UCLA. So it's even it's one, it's one combo, mean, we take piano, bass drums, and then, you know, for three or four of whatever else this year, this year, it's an octet. It's been quintet sextet, and they they do all their classes together, they play together, they record together, they write, they do all these classes with these visiting artists. As I was saying, we facilitate International Jazz day. And then one of the programs that I oversee is our national performing arts high school program. And we are in 13, performing arts high schools around the country where I visit each of these schools, from LA to New York, and I mentor the teachers, and I work with directly with the students. And then while I'm doing that tour, spending three days at each school, I covertly put together to quote unquote, all star groups, where we do what we call peer to peer jazz informants tours, where we take this quintet or sextet of these amazing young kids who play better than a lot of the pros I play with, frankly, that, you know, they're the kids with the blinders on. And you're not jaded by the real world, yet they got these great attitudes, you know, they just want to learn and that they actually think they're going to be able to make a living in this music. Keep them in the dark is slow. And we put a major artist in front of them. And we we, we tour in different states performing in high schools. So it's kids teaching kids, and it's unbelievable. So they're telling them, Hey, there's more to music than just rock and roll and hip hop. Those are great genres, too. But you need to check out jazz, but they're also teaching them how jazz represents teamwork, and unity with ethnic diversity, and persistence and perseverance and democracy and the vital importance of really listening to one another. And the correlation of hardwork and goal accomplishment, right. But even more important, we these are high school assemblies. They're saying you know, we're doing something with our lives. You need to do something with yours. It doesn't have to be music, but find it out. asking for something. Believe in yourself, work hard at it and go for it. And if I go in and say those things, right? They don't hear me. Yeah, these kids, it's always beautifully, ethnically diverse group. They all work together. They're all friendly, getting along and they're playing great. They go in and say, hey, put the video game down man find a passion for you. It could be engineering or computers or medicine or law or business, right, but find a passion for something. So this year, we've been to 43 states. We've been doing these since 2005. This year, we're in Arkansas. These are in May, a week long tour with Don Braden, we always put a guest artist in front of them for the week and then Sean Jones, for Virginia. Wow. But we've had Bobby Watson Antonio Hart Delfield Marcellus Ingrid Jensen. Yeah. Herbie Hancock did one. Wow. I mean, just years ago, this just just just amazing. Dana Stevens. Boy, the list goes on and on. Some of the guests we've had do these tours, and they always tell me that it's one of the best weeks of their year. They love working with these kids. And the difference. And we always finish the week at the jazz club, like the one we're doing in Virginia will finish the week at blues alley, in Washington, DC. So a couple hours from where we finish our tour in Virginia, right? And it's always packed. Because the Institute has great publicity and Rancher gets the word out. And the difference between how these kids sound on Monday at the first high school to Saturday night at the club, night and day, you actually see them growing, which you don't see that kind of growth that fast with college students. Right, right. But with this, you're seeing this kid is a different player. At the end of the week.

Dr. Bob Lawrence  27:02  
That's amazing. Yeah, yeah, it's it's what blows my mind today. The talent of the of the kids, the young kids? And of course, you know, right. Look, I mean, I tell that the high school students here at the school and I tell them, you got, you have all these incredible tools at your fingertips that you that you JB didn't have, I didn't have growing up. I mean, the fact that they can go on to YouTube, and, and pull up Horace silver, or Miles Davis or Oscar Peterson, and literally sit there and watch video of performances and recordings, that they can use technology to create play long tracks and backing tracks to play with and practice with. It's just amazing to me, you know, with these resources, and these young kids the way they played the sound today, I'm not surprised that you're like, like what you said that a lot of them play better than the pros that I play with, you know, I mean, it's it's amazing today, what's what's happening?

Dr. JB Dyas  28:04  
Well, I mean, just look at jazz piano skills.com What you do, yeah, and this wasn't around when we were kids, right? I mean, you go to your website, and you can learn how to play piano right there at home. Right, you know, sit and sit in front of the computer and and learn. You know, it's a double edged sword though, Bob, because these kids, you know, always talk about that 100 years ago, if you really loved violin music, and you loved it, and you wanted to hear it anytime you want it, you want it to listen to violin music anytime you wanted, you'd have to buy a violin study with a teacher for at least 10 years. Right? So that when you wanted to hear violin music, you could do it. Now, you just on your phone with your Bose. You put it in instantaneously. Right? You you heal here on Hillary Han. playing brilliantly, anytime. So when we were coming up, we would listen to the same record over and over and over again. We get into the nuance of it. And now you have to listen to a whole album. Yeah, great that just listened to a tune and sometimes what I'm doing is I'm swiping here.

Dr. Bob Lawrence  29:19  
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Right. So that's a great point. JB so

Dr. JB Dyas  29:23  
they so there's sometimes more quantity than quality.

Dr. Bob Lawrence  29:28  
Yeah, because we would listen to we would listen to recordings albums so frequently that we can we could sing the solos of every every instrumentalist on every tune. It's how often we'd listen to him.

Dr. JB Dyas  29:40  
Yeah, and we'd live and we and the album would be a setlist we didn't see how that would go. Right. And now it's just tunes. Yeah. And so well, so it's a double edged sword while you do have a great point, the access Great point. They they and so you look at you look on the students phones. And they, and they got one or 2000 tunes on there. You know? They would have to listen 24/7 Just to get through a once.

Dr. Bob Lawrence  30:13  
Oh my gosh, right? Yeah. Remember, remember the good old days, man, we'd have the liner notes you could actually read about, like you said, you would read about all the musicians performing their backgrounds, you'd read about every every tune. What was happening? I mean, it was fantastic. It was fantastic.

Dr. JB Dyas  30:31  
Yeah, if the record Yeah. In fact, that was that was how we learn jazz history before. Yeah. Before it was formalized. You know, with the great Mark Ridley books and Ted Gioia books, which are great, great books, right. But, you know, you go in, and you just see all the advantages they have, and some kids are taking advantage of it. And some are, but I tried to instill how important that is to do that. To do that listening. If the record is iconic enough, the album is iconic enough. There's a Wikipedia a wicked Wikipedia entry that'll that'll give you basically what those liner notes were who's when recorded?

Dr. Bob Lawrence  31:18  
Yeah, right. So so, hey, do we want to I know you have some stuff that you want to share from your website, you want to you want me to share the screen and get into that a little bit. One

Dr. JB Dyas  31:28  
of you know, we were talking about how I show how a tune is put together. And and you might want to show that one more I did this is with those one of the groups a couple of years ago the performing arts high school, you know, all star peer to peer we call it the peer to peer septet, right peer to peer jazz, septet. And we could we could look at that. And this is how I show people that don't know anything about jazz. How attune is is put together.

Dr. Bob Lawrence  31:59  
Okay, so we're, we go to

Dr. JB Dyas  32:02  
videos, and then just scroll down to jazz pedagogy. Got it? And then scroll down to the third one. Oh, by the way, that first one is when we did with Herbie Hancock in the US Department of Education. That's a great yeah. Just how jazz works. It's the third one down.

Dr. Bob Lawrence  32:20  
Okay. And let me get this. Let me get this queued up.

Dr. JB Dyas  32:24  
Yeah. And go to about 11 minutes in and that's where it starts. And yeah, since it's pretty small, if you can go ahead and make that full screen.

Dr. Bob Lawrence  32:34  
Full screen now. Is it full screen? I think so. Yep. All right. So here we

Dr. JB Dyas  32:39  
go. So now we're going to play tenor madness for you. But we're going to break it down into its basic elements. And I'm going to show you all those elements chorus by chorus. So the first core for us, all you're going to hear are the basic chords, like you'll hear a B flat seven. With a B flat in the bass, the bass player will play B flat in the bass, and then we'll go to E flat seven. And the bass player again plays the E flat in the bass and then back to B flat seven, and so forth. Then the second chorus and the third chorus and the fourth chorus, I will show you what happens to make it sound what the musicians do to make it sound more like jazz. When you finally hear the melody come in, that would actually be the first chorus you'd hear in a jazz performance. They always start off with the head. Remember, jazz is like a sandwich, you've got that first piece of bread at the top and the and you'll have that head again at the end. That's the melody and all the good stuff in the middle. So without further ado, let's listen to the elements of tenor madness by the Herbie Hancock Institute national peer to peer jazz septet.

Dr. JB Dyas  33:54  
Notice there's four beats in each measure, B flat, 71234, B flat, 7234, C minor. Those are just the basic core. Now, notice the bass player is creating what we call a walking baseline. He's putting a note on each beat. Notice 12341234 Still lands on the roofs like he lands on F lands on B flat but all the other notes are improvised. Now we take the drummer and he'll take his right hand on that ride cymbal over here and line this white up with the beats with the bases. Everyone's keeping their place. And here's the 11th bar and 12 Now let's have the drummer add some jazz embellishments. They'll add some more embellishments rather than just playing that quarter note V he'll add a swing rhythm And they'll take that left hand on the drums and his right foot on the bass drum and have a musical conversation between his left hand and right foot. And he's embellishing even more now, and the bass player is adding some embellishments. So rather than just the coordinates, please give me some ideas to do to see. And again, all that's improvised. Now, rather than just those basic chords, the test the pianists add some jazz for. Notice he's got two hands on the piano now, adding more notes sounding more like jazz. More interesting. Now, rather than just playing the chords when they change, he can add rhythmic variety. By topping the piano anytime you want. We call that comping because it comes from the word complement. And accompany now the horns are gonna get ready to play the hand now this is where the tooth would actually start. This would be the first four starting off right play music just like Sunday with a nice week

Dr. JB Dyas 36:23  
this will be the first chorus and bar 11 top now that repeating but notice they're in harmony. But no harmony is written doing the harmony part by ear utilizing their knowledge of music theory.

And now it's time for the sole. We start off with tenor saxophone, we can start off with anyone we want to start with tenor saxophone and Baltimore we're at the top again. And this is Evan Doherty. He's also from Baltimore

Dr. JB Dyas  37:32  
and now it's time for the trombones Melbourne from New Orleans. Let's see who's solos next for the guitar so Ty burns he's from Las Vegas time for the piano solo Josh was also from Los Angeles and now time for the bass solo. And that's gave Barnard from Miami. Now after the bass solo, we're gonna do a thing we call trading forward. And that's where we have a musical conversation with the drummer.

Saxophone asked the drummer for measure question. And the drummer and everyone keeps their place. alto saxophone and drummer answered the alto sax. Everybody keeps their place and we call a trading horse because everyone's playing for measures of soloing.

And that's more Turner on the drum for use. Now, everybody's solos, we traded fours so we're playing the head again.

So we know the tune is almost over. Notice the horn players are all in unison. Meaning playing the melody late together and the repeating the melody but notice this time it's harmonized. No harmony is written harmonizing advice here, utilizing their knowledge of music theory
  
that's how jazz works.

Dr. Bob Lawrence  40:17  
That's ,That's That's awesome, man. That's, that's, that's fantastic. That's such a great. You just, you just walked everybody through the sandwich,

Dr. JB Dyas  40:29  
walked everybody through the sandwich. And you know, I've done this so many times. And when we played it, the Dakota, which is a beautiful jazz club in Minneapolis. He asked me to do that the owner asked me to do that, because they had a foundation and they were supporting local jazz musicians that they were having a meeting and I did it for him. And this is the cat that owned the Dakota and in the inside the Dakota the piano. There's all the signatures of these cats who have played there, including Dave Brubeck, and Wow, just wow, Oscar Peterson. And I mean, just just amazing people. And this guy owned this club for I don't know how many decades. And he said, You know, I've owned the club. I've heard all these great players. And I never knew how that worked. I'm gonna start listening to jazz in a different way now. Wow. So they just kind of all played

Dr. Bob Lawrence  41:23  
yet. Right. Right. Now they're hearing form and composition. And it's awesome.

Dr. JB Dyas  41:30  
How even with these kids how different each of those solos were? Yeah.

Dr. Bob Lawrence  41:35  
So these are all how they're expressing themselves. Yeah. And these are all high school kids that we just heard here. Yeah. All high school kids. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. That's fantastic. Yeah, fantastic. So also on the site, there's a lot of there's a lot of resources at your website, as well as at the Herbie Hancock Institute website. A lot of resources that folks can take advantage of, can you maybe just kind of give us an idea of some of those resources?

Dr. JB Dyas  42:03  
Yeah, if you go, if you share the screen, go back to go back to my website, go to the homepage.

Dr. Bob Lawrence  42:10  
Okay, let me get there. All right. So let me get out of full screen.

Dr. JB Dyas  42:20  
Okay, and then go to the top where it says, clinics. Yep. And scroll down to clinic packets.

Dr. Bob Lawrence  42:29  
clinic packets. Okay.

Dr. JB Dyas  42:31  
And you could go to full screen now. I think we'd be able to see him a little better. Or maybe you are on full screen.

Dr. Bob Lawrence  42:37  
I am on full screen. Yes. Okay, so these are

Dr. JB Dyas  42:41  
all the different topics. It's a little small, where I'm looking at, but these are all different topics. If you look at it at the bottom, you see where the one next to the bottom row 104 must know tunes.

Dr. Bob Lawrence  42:56  
Let's see here. Hang on. See, let me get back to that for a second. Yes.

Dr. JB Dyas  43:00  
Yeah, in double. You see that one? Go ahead and click on that one.

Dr. Bob Lawrence  43:05  
Okay. And I'll share this tab.

Dr. JB Dyas  43:08  
Yep. And can you make that any bigger?

Dr. Bob Lawrence  43:11  
No, I cannot. That's as big as it gets here on this side. But

Dr. JB Dyas  43:16  
okay, wow. So there's 104 tunes, right and if you scroll down

Dr. Bob Lawrence  43:23  
okay yep, there's the definitive recordings

Dr. JB Dyas  43:27  
there's a definitive recordings with the personnel and if you click on the link it'll take you right to the YouTube Wow, pick a tune and see if see if it works.

Dr. Bob Lawrence  43:40  
Yep, there's impressions Coltrane.

Dr. JB Dyas  43:44  
So talking about how easy it is we would have to you know, first of all get the $5 to buy the record

Dr. Bob Lawrence  43:55  
with that is what a remarkable resource you know, there it is right there.

Dr. JB Dyas  44:03  
So when and by the way, there are certain tunes I say definitive recordings there are certain tunes where everyone just knows what the definitive recording is. Yeah, right. Like for song for my father the definitive recording is Horace silver of grand for Blue Bossa it is Joe Henderson. Right? And bye bye. Blackbird Miles Davis. But what about all of me? Is it Lester Young is a Billie Holiday. Those are the ones that are fun to argue about. So the ones that are fun to argue about I put the two or three young people are arguable which is the most definitive they're all up there as well.

Dr. Bob Lawrence  44:42  
Right? What an incredible resource I mean that site your between your site, and the Herbie Hancock Institute holy moly, that's that's just so much for jazz students to take advantage of and I hope all the listeners go over and visit and poke around a little bit because it's this valuable, invaluable resource. versus so

Dr. JB Dyas  45:01  
on that same page, there's a packet called Tune learning. And I give the steps, the attend to learning steps I was talking about earlier. And examples of how to arpeggiate the chords. But also I have you know, you were talking about how your friend said, all the tunes are the same, what I have is a list of common occurrences. Yeah. And I put them in order. You know, I went through the book pocket changes, do you do you remember the little book pocket changes that I look for I real book pro.

Dr. Bob Lawrence  45:31  
I have them here. I have them here in my office. Yeah. too.

Dr. JB Dyas  45:36  
I went through that and just did a frequency count of all the things that happen all the time. And so what I have on there, in there is in order the common the common things that happen all the time, like, chords go around the circle of fourths, like C goes to f and f goes to B flat, that's, you know, a flat seven, seven goes to one like B flat seven, or F minor six, which is the same chord for minor which is like basically a Bach playgirl minor kids, right? All those are just kind of listed there with examples of where you can find them.

Dr. Bob Lawrence  46:12  
Right, five minor to one seven, the four major, you know, happens, which is 251. Of course, yeah. Right. You know, right, exactly. You know, yeah, I've always said about pocket changes I used to, I used to, I used to say about pocket changes, the only thing that would make this book better, is if every tune was just written in Roman numerals, you know, so you'd have to actually go, Okay, let's pick a key. Let's play the tune. And you see the harmonic function. I call it the harmonic DNA of the song, you have to know the harmonic DNA. And how cool would that be? Right?

Dr. JB Dyas  46:48  
Yeah. And then you'd really see that they're all the same, then you'd really see that exactly. We're in different keys. It gives the novice the illusion that they're different.

Dr. Bob Lawrence  46:57  
That something different is happening all the time, correct. That's correct.

Dr. JB Dyas  47:00  
You're right, man. Yeah. So the numbers

Dr. Bob Lawrence  47:04  
know the numbers so important. I, you know, I was a kid and I was using the John Mohegan books. Do you remember? Oh, yes, John Mohegan books. So I was introduced to the John Mohegan books as a kid. And he was big on Roman numeral notation. And so you know, I learned it as a kid. And it's, I've been doing it ever since. So I, in fact, so much, so I can't even imagine JB not looking at a tune and understanding the root movement of that tune. And what's really going on there.

Dr. JB Dyas  47:35  
Yeah. And, and then in the common occurrences that I have in the tune learning packet. Yeah, it's all in numbers.

Dr. Bob Lawrence  47:42  
Yeah. That's fantastic. That's fantastic. That's fantastic. JB look, you have been so kind, you've been so gracious to come on jazz piano skills and spend time with me and, and for the listeners, I can't even begin to adequately put into words how grateful I am and to thank you enough. It's been such a joy in such a blessing to have you on jazz piano scales.

Dr. JB Dyas  48:05  
Well, I enjoyed it and time just flew by I and I, you know, and I recommend your site to so many cats. Jazz Piano skills.com in its it's a must. And by the way, this was not solicited everybody. This is my own. This is my own. My own feeling about this. It's a great site, and great stuff and the podcasts, and you're doing great work meant teaching people how to play the music and appreciate the music. Well, thank

Dr. Bob Lawrence  48:39  
you. That means listen, that means a lot coming from you and you just made my day You made my week, my month my year so I can't I can't even begin to thank you. So hey, listen, when you come back on man, we come back on in the future that have you back on maybe we could pick a topic or two and really kind of drill down deeper in these some of these topics and deal with them.

Dr. JB Dyas  48:58  
Anytime the next time I come on, I want to talk about homonyms. Okay? homonyms.

Dr. Bob Lawrence  49:05  
hominins. Okay, you've gotten spit. Stay tuned, man. All right, JB, God bless, man. Thanks so much and, and have a great day. And I will keep you posted on how to post all your website information at jazz panel skills as well so people can access it point people to your site. And then I look forward to having you back on again soon.

Dr. JB Dyas
Thanks so much, Bob. All right. Bye bye.